Listen and subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, PodBean and YouTube
Follow me on Medium at https://medium.com/@nafabbri
Full transcript below ^_^
In this podcast, Nick and Angie discuss:
Angie’s life story and career as a poet
Typewriters and poetry
Influences on Angie’s writing, such as New Zealand writer Janet Frame
Imagination and writing poetry for children
The City of Melbourne and recent changes to busking permits
The busking and street performer communities in Melbourne
Social scourges such as homelessness, substance abuse, domestic violence, and inadequate access to healthcare
Some of Angie’s poems about new beginnings, Merri Creek, addiction and substance abuse
Angelina Stanton is a poet, who has worked in Australia and New Zealand. Follow Angie on Facebook
Angelina Stanton
8 March 2020
Melbourne
Interview with Angelina Stanton
8 March 2020
Melbourne, Australia
00:00 Angelina Stanton:
New Beginnings – Starting Over (22.02.2020)
There is a morning
here in the evening
a greeting. Bittersweet leaving
A page turned over –
and as it is, all mixed with
the joy, the grieving
Stepping forward burdens lain –
Others found – what tomorrow holds
Can never be sure, only
That there is one, and it is
A morning moment.
00:27 Nick Fabbri: Welcome to Bloom. A conversations podcast about anything and everything. The poem you just heard was written and read by Angelina Stanton, a street poet in Melbourne, Australia, who uses a typewriter to write poems on any topic within 15 to 20 minutes for members of the public.
00:44 Angie is a familiar and much loved face to those who frequent Swanston Street, the heart of Melbourne’s Central Business District, and it was there that I met Angie a few weeks ago where she wrote me the very poem you just heard with the prompt, "New Beginnings, Starting Over," which I requested for a friend who was moving overseas for six months.
01:03 In this interview, Angie and I talk about how she got interested in poetry and typewriters, her journey from New Zealand to Australia and her favourite writer, fellow New Zealander Janet Frame. We also speak about the City of Melbourne and its recent changes to busking permits which have aroused the ire of the performing community, as well as other social issues Angie comes face to face with while performing on the streets of Melbourne such as homelessness, substance abuse, domestic violence and people falling through the cracks of the system.
01:30 So, Angie, thank you so much for being here today and I was hoping that you could start by telling our listeners a little bit more about how you got into writing poetry.
01:37 Angie: Hi. I think it was 2013, the end of the year and I'd just recently come to Melbourne from New Zealand. I came to Melbourne - one of the main motivations was to actually explore poetry and I just had this feeling like a lot of artists come to Melbourne from different places, thinking it's a good place to practice I think and I guess I was one of them.
02:07 Nick: Cultural capital of Australia.
02:09 Angie: Yeah. So, I was mainly trying to do like spoken word stuff and I had like a job working in a fruit shop, and I lost that job, like just before Christmas.
02:22 Nick: Right.
02:23 Angie: And then I guess I was thinking, you know, I have to do something to pay bills and all of this stuff. I had a - I had a friend who did busking. I thought that was like a really interesting lifestyle because she was a singer and played the guitar and she would just go out and like come back in a couple of hours with $100 or whatever.
02:51 Nick: Wow, doing something that she loved as well, right?
02:53 Angie: Yeah, doing something - yeah, practicing art. I was like I would love to do that but I'm not a musician, I write poetry, and I guess I wasn't - I'm not comfortable with like doing spoken word out on the streets, so it's more of an introverted way. But I looked it up and realised that - I found out - I forget the name of it but there's a few people around the world that do what I do.
03:20 Nick: Do poetry via typewriter?
03:22 Angie: Yeah. Yeah. So, I just found this one particular man who was doing it in the States somewhere and I thought sounds like a good idea. So, I borrowed a typewriter and I tried one day in St Kilda and I was very nervous. I actually had I think three bourbon and cokes and it took me like hours to actually set up. I was very nervous.
03:48 Nick: How was the poem after three bourbon and cokes?
03:49 Angie: I think it was okay actually. So, I wrote - I remember the first poem I wrote. It was called 'Baby Daddy Looks Like Jesus' and it was a woman that wanted a poem for her partner who was the father of her child and who I met in Tasmania like a year later again.
04:10 Nick: Yeah, wow. Okay.
04:10 Angie: Yes, and because I waited so long on that first day, I only wrote like two poems but I sort of felt like it was working.
04:20 Nick: And you set up the sign on the street and it said...
04:22 Angie: Yeah.
04:23 Nick: What does your sign say now? It says...
04:24 Angie: It always says the same thing because I'm superstitious about it.
04:27 Nick: Right.
04:28 Angie: It says, 'I will write you a poem on any topic you choose. Come and say hi.' Yeah.
04:34 Nick: Beautiful, and it's worked obviously.
04:36 Angie: Yeah, and so I guess I just kept doing it after that and it's been good because when I've gone to other places, as long as it's like a sort of population of people, then I can just set up the typewriter and do it usually.
04:52 Nick: Incredible. So, it sort of allows you to have almost like a mobile workspace.
04:55 Angie: Yeah.
04:56 Nick: Wherever you want to go, there's people who will pay for poems, right?
04:59 Angie: Yeah, amazingly. I'm still amazed.
05:01 Nick: Yeah. So, that's one of the reasons I actually wanted to chat to you because I find both poetry and typewriting - which I love, I've had a typewriter - to be kind of out of fashion in a way. A lot of people don't read poetry and certainly a lot of people don't use typewriters because of, you know, digital technologies and stuff. So, you've put both things together and it seems to be working really well in terms of the interest you get on the streets and the amount of people who kind of share your stuff online or...
05:25 Angie: Yeah.
05:26 Nick: So, why do you think that is? What sort of, in typewriting and poetry, have you managed to sort of touch on?
05:32 Angie: I think - it’s hard to say because I am actually amazed that people like it, but I think people are interested in poetry, like as an artform. I think maybe sometimes it feels a bit inaccessible to some people or like something that, you know, you can’t do or engage with unless you have like a certain type of...
06:02 Nick: Where you've studied it at school or something or...
06:04 Angie: Yeah, like something that's a bit too intellectual or something like that. So, being on the street is very accessible. I guess like the typewriter began as a sort of I guess like a gimmick which is unusual to see and hear.
06:22 Nick: Yeah, it's cool. It's poetry in itself, typing with a typewriter.
06:25 Angie: Yeah. Yeah, I guess the fact it's sort of personalised is an attraction to people so they have something to take away that hasn't existed before and it’s their’s.
06:32 Nick: Yeah, absolutely. It's quite special. People like to think that someone might write them a poem one day and that’s why I think, you know, it's nice to be able to, you know, have you there to sort of provide that beautiful experience in some ways, you know, to feel better or something or to...
06:52 Angie: Yeah.
06:53 Nick: I mean, you wrote mine in 15 minutes and I couldn't believe that, you know, you get a poem on demand basically because you think maybe I'll get a love letter in the mail one day, a poem or something…
07:02 Angie: Yeah.
07:03 Nick: So, what do you like about the typewriter as a medium in itself though? Like if you think about, you know, you’ve referred to it as an honesty machine, right, because you can't delete what you've written and stuff like that, but is it different to writing with pen or on a computer?
07:18 Angie: Yeah, it's a lot. It's very physical and you have to hit the keys a lot harder than you would be able to on the laptop or PC. So, there's that kind of dynamic to it. So, you're feeling like - if you're feeling something like a strong emotion, you can take it out on the machine and it's fine and it’s good.
07:42 So, there's that and I think like because depending on like the position of the ribbon and the pressure of your finger, like it always looks different, like so you can type an 'A' and it will be different each time if you know what I mean.
07:59 Nick: Yeah, and the differences in paper as well, right? The quality of the paper might be quite fibrous or thick paper like cardboard even sometimes.
08:02 Angie: Yeah, totally. Yeah.
08:07 Nick: Have you seen any poetry by E. E. Cummings? He also has like that - little bits in like...
08:11 Angie: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.
08:13 Nick: Yeah, the poems that he wrote are kind of like in that lovely typewriter font but, yeah, and they experiment with the different like structure of it as well. So, like you might - the typography is different as well in the way the poems are laid out which I think the typewriter kind of allows you to do as well, right, you know?
08:30 Angie: Yeah, totally.
08:31 Nick: So, thinking back to, you know, you and your work as a poet, who have been some of your biggest influences and what poetry do you like to read?
08:41 Angie: I think probably growing up, I was introduced to Janet Frame who I don't know if you know but...
08:48 Nick: No.
08:49 Angie: She's a New Zealand writer. She died like I think a few years ago but she was definitely the biggest influence on me growing up. She was - she wrote a lot of poetry. She had an interesting sort of life. She was in a mental institution for like I think about almost a decade. Yeah, but she - yeah, amazing stuff.
09:21 I think in some ways, yeah, like because I grew up with her and like was a near - kind of near, like familiar places that were in her books to where I grew up around.
09:33 Nick: So, she was writing about like parts of New Zealand that you knew, like in the countryside or…
09:37 Angie: Yeah, that I knew. Yeah, and I guess even the people that she was writing about, like in her family, because she wrote three volumes of an autobiography and I kind of knew those kinds of people and all of that sort of stuff. She was quite an awkward person like me. So, yeah, I identified with her. Yeah, then...
10:07 Nick: Do you read much poetry now? Is it important as a writer to be reading and sort of absorbing new material while you’re writing as well?
10:13 Angie: Yeah. Well, I really like to go to spoken word events in Melbourne, just sort of be interested. I guess they're kind of like my peers but to...
10:28 Nick: Is there a big spoken word community or poetry community in Melbourne?
10:30 Angie: Yeah, there is. Yeah, there's definitely like a really strong one.
10:35 Nick: Cool.
10:35 Angie: Yep. I don't know how big it is. You sort of see the same faces everywhere but like a lot of them - yeah, a lot of new people kind of join and come.
10:43 Nick: That's awesome.
10:46 Angie: Yeah, almost every night there's an event. I enjoy that and like hearing the poetry sort of being read. Yeah, there's kind of a feeling of people sharing with each other on the same level.
11:05 Nick: You mentioned before about when you started in St Kilda doing typewritten poetry, that you do the typewriter obviously because it's physical and it lasts and people can, you know, purchase it on the street for let's say $10 or $20 or whatever it costs for a poem. That's different to the verbal kind of spoken poetry obviously if you're on a street corner, but how do you - do you notice a difference in the poetry you do verbally rather than the stuff you write?
11:32 Angie: Yeah. It's kind of strange but I guess when I do my personal writing, it's like a big deal for me to share it, like because I'm doing it with a different kind of mentality I guess, writing like purely for myself from myself. So, it's a lot more personal. Whereas, writing on the street, it's the other person is sort of participating and creating the poem. So, I think, yeah, it's still kind of nerve wracking when someone reads a poem in front of me.
12:12 Nick: Is that what happened? Because I just picked mine up and I walked off.
12:15 Angie: Yeah, people - it's about 50/50, that. Yeah.
12:18 Nick: Well, the reason I wanted to chat as well today is because I find the street artistry or the performance of being a typewriter poet or a street poet fascinating because, you know, the rhyming process is so intensely personal often and it takes a long time, right - for me especially, I'm a procrastinator - but, you know, having to turn something out in 15 minutes that, you know, people, you know, obviously might read in front of you. Like, what's - it's an interesting kind of experience, isn't it?
12:44 Angie: Yeah.
12:45 Nick: Yeah, rather than being able to sort of write in the comfort of your living room or, you know, sort of away from...
12:51 Angie: Yeah, I think it's actually changed the way I write as well because I guess before, I would want quiet and, you know, but now I tend to want to write like outside or... So, it's kind of changed.
13:08 Nick: That's cool. So, talk me through the process in terms of the creative process. So, I come up and I request something. How does it work on Swanston Street for people? They come and give you a prompt or ask you to write about something or...?
13:20 Angie: Yeah, so usually they'll come up and they'll just ask like questions like how much and how long does it take? Then, yeah, sometimes they'll have something already in mind. Sometimes they'll need to think a bit. So, yeah, I just say it's up to you, whatever.
13:42 Nick: Anything, it could be a poem...
13:43 Angie: Yeah, it can be anything like a word or a story or anything.
13:46 Nick: You can make, like they make a laptop or electric switches or something random and just normal. Yeah or things like love or something, right?
13:54 Angie: Yeah, love is obviously a common one which is good. I'm glad it's not hate.
14:00 Nick: So, when I came to you and I said - I was in a rush and you very generously squeezed me into your schedule - and I said, "I'd love a poem about new beginnings or started over," I think it was. It was actually for a friend that was heading overseas for six months, but you wrote such a beautiful poem but like when I gave you that prompt, like what was the process for you then?
14:21 Angie: From what I remember, you didn't tell me that - you didn’t tell me much.
14:26 Nick: Yeah, exactly it was just those two but then I couldn't believe the poem was so perfect. Do you know what I mean?
14:31 Angie: Oh, okay. Oh, that's good. Yeah, so I think in those situations it's - I guess I kind of write for myself which is - it's kind of a strange thing about art in general because you have to - it's like about introspection or whatever. It's almost a selfish thing but then when you share it, you find that people resonate with the...
15:02 Nick: Have the same feeling or something, yeah.
15:04 Angie: Yeah. So, I guess that's what I will do because almost anything, any topic, like I kind find some way of relating to it I guess from my own life or experience. It's like, yeah, I mean there's lots of common things like regardless of our backgrounds or whatever that we share as human beings. So, yeah.
15:29 Nick: It's beautiful, isn't it? Yeah, it's sort of like a way of having a conversation almost across time or in different countries as well who might, you know, read your poems and think back to a feeling or something or you might read a poem, like you mentioned about the New Zealand poet you follow about, you know, a different landscape, right, and so you can kind of be transported to a different, you know, geography or time or, you know, headspace.
15:53 Angie: Yeah.
15:53 Nick: Or emotional landscape as well through reading poems.
15:57 Angie: Yeah, so I guess that's the other thing, like sometimes people will give me a topic which I don’t know about like for example...
16:04 Nick: Nuclear physics.
16:07 Angie: Yeah, well I think that's actually happened. Yeah, or like a media - like a TV show that I've never seen or know nothing about, often kids or, yeah, a country I haven't been to. I usually try and ask them like why do you like that show or...
16:28 Nick: So, you do a bit of like an interview then with clients.
16:31 Angie: Yeah.
16:31 Nick: Okay, cool.
16:31 Angie: So, what do you like about that show? Then they'll tell me and then I'll write about that sort of feeling they have about the show.
16:39 Nick: Oh, how beautiful. I sort of wished I'd actually stayed longer and then had a chat to you about the prompt for my poem. I didn't realise, that's cool. What's it like with children who ask for poems because I think, you know, in a way, you know, the kind of imagination of children is what a lot of writers need and that kind of like, you know, innocence or...
17:01 Angie: Yeah.
17:03 Nick: So, do you notice the difference between the sort of stuff that little kids ask compared to adults?
17:07 Angie: Yeah, like they'll - yeah. A lot of things about dogs and ponies and stuff but, yeah, they're great. I love writing for kids. Yeah, it's probably my favourite thing.
17:24 Nick: How come?
17:25 Angie: Yeah. I just love that they are interested and they're so excited and honest and open about their excitement.
17:33 Nick: That's beautiful.
17:34 Angie: So, they're not worried about money or time or anything. Their parents are worried about that.
17:38 Nick: Yes, that's funny.
17:39 Angie: They're just like - and they want to know what the typewriter is.
17:42 Nick: Do they watch like the keys and the letters appearing on the...?
17:45 Angie: Yeah.
17:46 Nick: It would be so different because a lot of kids grow up now entirely with screens and, you know, digital stuff.
17:52 Angie: Yep.
17:53 Nick: Do they ask questions about it themselves?
17:55 Angie: Yeah, and sometimes if it seems like it's okay, then I might get them to write their name or whatever.
18:03 Nick: That’s fun.
18:06 Angie: Yeah. Yeah, but often they will ask for a poem about their family or their mum or whatever which is really cute.
18:15 Nick: It might be a good segue. There's a nice poem in the National Arboretum in Canberra which I think is a - what is it? A place where trees are kept or something like that. The plaque in the children's garden at the National Arboretum, Canberra, includes words adapted from a poem you wrote. You know, if you'd like to read the poem and tell us a bit about the story, that would be great.
18:36 Angie: So, it's just a few lines of a poem, I think it's:
For the children to explore
the secret corners
of our natural world
to be surrounded
by the beauty of the ground
in wild wonder of our earth.
18:53 Nick: Tell me about that poem. How did you...?
18:56 Angie: Well, I was in Sydney, I think in Newtown and there was a man came up and he told me that he was - I can't remember. It was a really short conversation but he was involved in this - what was it? Arb...
19:19 Nick: Arboretum.
19:19 Angie: Arboretum, yeah.
19:21 Nick: I'm going to Google what arboretum is right now.
19:22 Angie: Yeah, I didn't know the word at the time. It's sort of like a playground, yeah, with...
19:29 Nick: An arboretum is a botanical garden devoted to trees and there's a children’s garden obviously within that. That's pretty cool.
19:35 Angie: Yeah, okay. Yeah.
19:36 Nick: It might be a good idea to try to get that arboretum word in a poem tonight or something.
19:40 Angie: Yeah, I should try that. Ha, ha. Yeah, so he just asked me - explained that he was involved in this arboretum. I think he was pretty - he was in the bar, a pub and drunk.
19:55 Nick: That's funny.
19:56 Angie: He told me that he would like a poem about children in this playground. So, I wrote it. I didn't know - like sometimes people will - you know, sometimes they will say, "I want a poem." A lot of people will say, "I want to make a song out of your poem," or something like that and I don't really hear back from them but, yeah, that was true. I only found out a while later because I occasionally Google my name.
20:32 Nick: Yeah. Oh, who doesn't?
20:34 Angie: I saw that I was there. It's good.
20:36 Nick: Oh, wow. That's really beautiful.
20:38 Angie: Yeah. I haven't been there yet. I'll have to go there.
20:39 Nick: You should go and see your words up in the plaque. It would be a special experience, I think. Yeah.
20:43 Angie: Yeah, when I go to Canberra.
20:45 Nick: Yes, indeed. So, you obviously have worked in Newtown and I think in Hobart as well and all over the country, could even work overseas too, but thinking back to Swanston Street here in Melbourne CBD, you know - you made a post on Facebook a couple of weeks ago I think about Melbourne City Council making changes to the busking permits and things.
21:07 Angie: Yeah.
21:07 Nick: Did you want to speak a bit about that and I guess the impact on the community of street performers and artists?
21:12 Angie: Well, I guess - I mean, there are a lot of people, if you notice, especially on like a Saturday for example, like you walk down Swanston Street and like almost every corner there's someone doing something, yeah. So, I guess they are wanting to define what busking is.
21:38 Nick: Right. So, every busker needs a permit. Is that right?
21:41 Angie: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's really quite - there's a bit of a process to go to get one. It’s like really cheap and pretty easy to get but, yeah, so I guess they're wanting to define what busking is. So, within their definition it's - they were saying it's people that are providing entertainment without charge. So, they were saying like a musician for example, like they're playing a song and even if you don't give them money, you can still hear their music.
22:16 Nick: Great. That's busking? Yep.
22:17 Angie: Yeah. It's like - and they were - and also according to them, like for someone like a portrait artist or me and what I do or like a balloon artist, we're not providing entertainment without charge which I think is, yeah, not - yeah, I don't actually agree because I think people like to see that stuff.
22:43 Nick: Exactly. I mean, have it as part of a visual amenity in a way, you know? It sort of is entertainment.
22:48 Angie: People don't realise like how often we actually do this stuff for free at our own discretion in certain cases but yeah.
22:57 Nick: So, what's the implication? The new busking permits are obviously a bit more expensive and people might not...
23:02 Angie: It's a lot more expensive, like $300 I think compared to like $20. Yeah.
23:09 Nick: Right. That's a lot.
23:10 Angie: Yeah, I can't really afford that so, yeah.
23:13 Nick: Yeah. You should make a Go Fund Me page or something. I'm sure people would help support. Yeah, absolutely.
23:19 Angie: Yeah, I don't know if - yeah. I mean, I kind of think, yeah.
23:25 Nick: But it's so important to have, you know, people like you on Swanston Street and the other, you know, performers, buskers, artists, entertainers as well because I think that's what goes to the heart of, you know, why Melbourne is such a creative and interesting cultural city. I don't know - you know, it's sort of hard to think about Swanston Street without a lot of those performers there.
23:45 Angie: Yeah. I think it's a sort of bureaucratic sort of boundary which doesn't really make sense.
23:53 Nick: Right.
23:54 Angie: Yeah.
23:54 Nick: Yeah, okay. So, what is the busking community like in Melbourne? I mean, is it sort of - do you guys talk to each other or...?
24:03 Angie: Yeah. A lot of us do, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's people that you want to avoid but, yeah, like - yeah. It's kind of - yeah, there's a lot of really interesting people. Obviously, we're all a bit unusual.
24:21 Nick: From different walks of life as well. I mean, from all over the world.
24:24 Angie: Yeah, and there's a few that I really enjoy talking to. There are others like - I don't know. It's - you kind of want to keep a certain amount of distance at first at least because you do see these people like every day and you sort of need to negotiate space and stuff like that to keep good terms.
24:45 Nick: It's a really unique workplace, isn't it? Yeah, because you sort of - I mean, you’ve got to sort of negotiate all that stuff. I guess case by case and individually, there's no, you know, like a HR department to go to sort of resolve, you know, the issues you might be having or something.
25:00 Angie: Yeah.
25:01 Nick: Yeah, and so obviously being an outdoors workspace, what's it like kind of observing the city throughout the day? You know, what - in terms of the hours that you work week to week but also throughout the year and the changes in Melbourne. I mean, it's a pretty fascinating perspective, being out there.
25:17 Angie: Yeah. I mean, it's - I guess like the city is a place where generally people kind of go through on their way to somewhere else.
25:27 Nick: Like a transient kind of place, yeah.
25:29 Angie: Yeah. Sort of like an airport. You know, obviously there's a lot of people that work there and there's a lot of people that work outside or like very close to the street or just hang out. Yeah, there's a lot of regular faces that - some that I know and have spoken to and others that I don't know at all but I see every day. I don't know why they're there. Some I might be on a nodding basis with.
26:03 Nick: Yeah, that's a relationship, nodding. You might not say a word to each other ever but...
26:08 Angie: No, that's right. Yeah.
26:09 Nick: That's funny.
26:10 Angie: Then you can be like that for one or two years and then for one reason or another, you can have a conversation. You know, "Are you going alright or not?" Yeah.
26:20 Nick: Is it - sometimes I imagine you must see some pretty confronting stuff being in Swanston Street, you know, at night. Sometimes there are like fights and things but I guess you would be kind of up close to a lot of social issues in Melbourne like - I mean, I'm thinking about like homelessness for instance and people with, you know, mental ill health and things like that as well. I mean, I think a lot is surfaced in the city and in the streets, you know?
26:45 Angie: Yeah, I mean, there's like people who are visibly homeless. It's hard to - I mean, like I think that I've experienced homelessness myself and I know that people there are experiencing homelessness. You wouldn't usually - you wouldn't know by walking past them on the street but, yeah, there's a group of people that are very visible. Usually those people are dealing with addiction and/or mental health issues. Yeah, mental health stuff is really sad actually. It's like. There's - it's sad that they're out on the streets and basically the only kind of - I mean, you know, the police will...
27:34 Nick: Check in on them...
27:34 Angie: ... sort of deal with them.
27:35 Nick: But they're outside those formal support structures and they've really fallen through the cracks. I find it fascinating as a society that people, you know, can walk by so easily, people who are visibly homeless or who have - you know, they're visibly affected by mental health episodes and things. We often just sort of turn our eye to it. We avert our gaze, you know?
27:57 Angie: Yep, and there was - for a while, I think it's kind of calmed down but for a while there was a certain person who would - I don't want to like reveal anything about the person but like they would collapse, like almost - it seemed like it was happening every day for a while. Then someone - a passer-by would actually call the ambulance, like “someone is on the ground”. Obviously not sleeping or anything, they obviously just collapsed. Then the police and ambulance would come and take this person away but then I would see them again the next day.
28:40 Nick: Doing the same thing...
28:41 Angie: Yeah, and the same thing would happen. Yeah, it was just - yeah, that kind of stuff is really frustrating to see. I don't know what illness or problem that person had, like I know they probably take some substances but they don't always seem like they're really high or anything so I don't know anything.
29:06 Nick: Yeah, it's...
29:07 Angie: Oh, I did see the ambulance giving them food so maybe it was diabetes or something.
29:13 Nick: Right, but it's quite shocking to think that, yeah, someone with those conditions is out on the street and without support and care and kind of like a, you know, place to...
29:23 Angie: Yeah.
29:24 Nick: So, how do you deal with maybe those kinds of issues, things like, you know, drug addiction or substance abuse? I mean, is there a way in which the, you know, people on the streets - where do they turn to? Is it mostly the police and medical folks?
29:39 Angie: Well, there are like services like the Salvos up the road in Bourke Street which is better than nothing but they, you know, obviously are not helping a lot of these people. You know, whether that's for whatever reason. Yeah, but yeah, I know people can go there, like to eat, possibly sleep.
30:03 Nick: Do you think you'd ever write like a book or publish a book or something about the kinds of issues and stories that kind of get overlooked on the streets as well, like the people we've spoken about and the kind of social issues as well? Because I think, you know, you've obviously got a real talent for writing and communication and to be able to tell those stories could be quite powerful, you know, through poetry or through writing itself.
30:28 Angie: I think that if I do publish something of my own, then it will be about that. Yeah.
30:37 Nick: You should go for it.
30:37 Angie: Working on it. It's, yeah, I don't know. It's partly the time and partly like actually committing to doing it.
30:45 Nick: Yeah, so final kind of question is, you know, we mentioned before about the perspective of society and people from the street in terms of the issues we spoke about but also just the people coming in and out of the city. You know, the way we change in winter as well. You know, it sort of becomes a bit more kind of rugged up and indoors, but what kind of are your observations about Melbourne and our society that you kind of have drawn over the last seven years since moving here from New Zealand?
31:13 Angie: Oh, well. I have to think about that one.
31:19 Nick: Sorry, it's too many questions rolled into one, I think.
31:23 Angie: Yeah. I don't know. Well, I mean, people are people wherever you go. Let me think. I like Melbourne. I find it calmer than Sydney. People are calmer. I actually like how there's so much stuff happening on the street and so much busking. I hope that continues with like especially the more creative stuff.
31:51 Nick: Absolutely, yeah.
31:53 Angie: Yeah, to keep going because I really like that part of Melbourne, the city. I don't think that I really see that or have seen that like in the other cities in New Zealand and Australia.
32:05 Nick: Cities? No, I think that's what - it's quite unique.
32:06 Angie: Yeah. It's just that prominence of art. I think, yeah - I mean, one thing that was good about like Newtown and that area in Sydney is that people didn't need permits or - a permit was really easy to get. You sort of sign up online and it's free. Yeah and then - but I think that actually lends itself to it being more creative and interesting and stuff like that. So, I hope Melbourne continues to be like that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, Melbourne is famously sort of temperamental in the weather which I kind of like because...
32:58 Nick: Yeah, it keeps you on your toes, especially working outdoors.
33:02 Angie: Yeah, it's good to have a bit of variety, I think. I'd say, yeah. I think that might have an effect on - maybe it helps - maybe it makes people more creative. Yeah, I don't know.
33:16 Nick: Would you like to read one or two of your poems, your favourite ones? Did you manage to bring a few?
33:20 Angie: Probably. Okay, so this is called 'She'.
She bends over.
Delicate frame
crane like, seeking discarded end
Of ciggies
and now and then she finds something better.
Excuse me, excuse me.
Relentless questions emanating
from this fashion model figure
beneath dirty sweats.
Avoid eye contact.
She's sober and desperate.
There's that early morning voice
in the midst of an evening,
that particular junkie croak,
letting you know for certain
she's after something murky.
Don't glance even once at this dirty scene of human need
that only inspires fear.
Her boyfriend screams after her.
No closed windows in her world.
"Shut your mouth you stupid slut, you're embarrassing me."
She screams back, her words too vulgar even for poetry.
Walk on.
Look for poverty more
well represented
which must exist somewhere on subsistence welfare
with more admirable ethics.
She is clearly an addict
which is worse than your habits
indulged in behind closed windows
and only ever an Uber away,
but she smells like a hint
of bin juice and ongoing threats,
hunting for a comfortable reflection,
but I look away,
no acknowledgement made
of where we met that day
over there around the corner.
South Melbourne beach sharing sandy sob stories.
A drunken remark on the track marks running
Like the riverways up her arms
and only a smile for a response, sharing a flame.
I lingered for the length of about four cigarettes
and she said. She said,
"Keep that lighter, I have another.”
35:14 Nick: That's beautiful. Thank you.
35:15 Angie: No worries.
35:16 Nick: It's like a kind of intricate story as well. How did you come to write that poem?
35:22 Angie: I think it's an amalgamation of different people and events that I see on the streets. It's not about like a particular individual. Yeah.
35:31 Nick: It sort of touched on those issues we spoke through earlier as well, didn't it?
35:34 Angie: Yeah, so I guess it's why it came to mind. Yeah.
35:37 Nick: Yeah. Did you have another one you wanted to...?
35:40 Angie: So, this is about Merri Creek in North Melbourne. I believe it's called Merri Merri for some reasons which I might be wrong. I might believe that's the name of the creek.
Merri Merri
Have you ever tried making friends with this Creek
with the shallow end
where if you squint,
you can imagine the world 300 years ago?
Have you tried asking the Creek what she thinks,
what she knows about blood and progression
and all the other things travelling within her?
Have you asked the birds
if they are okay with the internet,
if that makes up for their homeless feathers?
They do not flutter for your pleasure.
The music and majestic beauty of
the birds,
the water,
have nothing to do with you.
They simply are.
You and your dubious ethical stance
have no business
walking past
as if you imagine yourself separate.
No, lean into it, please,
and merge our species
for you must tell
the dirt
and the creek
and the birds
your name
before learning theirs.
36:54 Nick: That was a very beautiful poem about a special and sacred part of Melbourne. Thank you so much for your time this afternoon, Angie.
37:00 Angie: Thank you.